Karl Kesel/Tom Grummett Panel Recap!
Karl Kesel/Tom Grummett Panel Recap!
by @donsparrow
Last month I had the enormous privilege of moderating a panel at 2017's SaskExpo, a Comics and Pop Culture Convention in Canada. This panel was a spotlight on the work of two of the show's biggest creator guests, Tom Grummett and Karl Kesel, who are no doubt familiar to regular readers of the blog. Here's the questions I asked, and what I remember of the responses. Should a full transcript become available, I'll definitely share it with you. Overall the panel went well. I'm sure we would have liked a larger crowd (we were scheduled opposite a panel featuring the great John Rhys-Davies!) but it was certainly a blast on my end.
1. What did you do before comics? Tell me about getting that first comic gig.
Tom made a very important distinction when answering this one, clarifying that he always made comics, they just weren't published (or at least not by a major company) which was good to remember--even if no one is paying you, always be making comics. Both Karl and Tom worked in printing and design while working on their samples, and in Karl's case in particular, it was his persistence (having moved to New York to be closer to comics publishers) that got him the gig at the start, more than his raw talent.
2. Influences. Since I'm here moderating a panel with two of my heroes, I was curious who your creative heroes were growing up--in comics and outside of comics.
The big name that came up with both Karl and Tom was unsurprising: Jack Kirby. Tom singled out Kirby's DC work as his entry into comics, while Karl was entranced by the Fantastic Four.
3. The past few years have seen an explosion in superhero films and television shows, including the Doomsday storyline being touched on in Batman v Superman, or a live action Flash taking on King Shark in multiple episodes. What is it like seeing something you created on-screen?
With a laugh, both men had to admit they hadn't seen King Shark on The Flash, as they are not regular viewers of the show, nor did they see Batman v Superman, but they did appreciate that these characters are reaching new audiences.
4. Karl, how was it joining the super-team full-time? Having inked John Byrne and done those great Newsboy Legion backups, was it like coming home, or were you nervous fitting into the rotating framework that had been up and running for so long?
Karl said that it was a bit of both--he had been a regular reader of the Superman books, and the chance to step in was an attractive challenge. He then praised the unique storytelling of that era, pointing out that each team had their strengths--Dan Jurgens excelled at action and big picture ideas, Roger Stern was great at character and at finding a satisfying ending to a story. Louise Simonson was all about heart and emotion, and so, through his strengths, and by default, Karl and Tom's Adventures became the more light-hearted, sometimes comedic book. He also said that the transition was pretty seamless and painless, in part because it was such a well-oiled machine by that time.
5. As you may or may not already know, I co-write a weirdly obsessive blog covering your time on the Superman books, and my co-writer on that blog, Max, is from Chile. When I mentioned I'd be moderating this panel, he wanted me to ask you: by any chance, did ever read the old Spanish translations of the Silver Age Superboy comics? Because, in those comics Lana Lang’s name was (for some reason) translated as “Lina Luna”. “Luna” of course means “Moon”, so Max had wondered if Tana Moon’s name was a reference to that.
This was a fun one. Karl replied with a flat "no" that he hadn't read any Spanish language translations of any comics, but when I explained the Tana Moon/Lana Lang connection, he thought that it was a very cool coincidence, and then, jokingly, answered that, yes, it had all been planned, intentionally.
6. How do you feel about the industry as a whole? Of course we hear the stories of sales declines, but we're also in a time where comics can be a lot more democratic--properties like Section Zero can be brought back through the fans directly by crowdfunding. In that way, is this not a time of unique opportunity as a creator?
Both creators were very optimistic about the industry, stating that comic sales have always gone up and down, and that there have been scares about the longevity of the medium for as long as they've been reading comics. They also agreed that the ability to connect directly with audiences was an exciting element unique to today's comics, and that Section Zero is viable with only a few thousand patrons, all passionate about the project, which is different than when it first came out. Karl detailed that, since the project was creator owned, it also meant that there was no money up-front--the initial issues had to be fronted by the creative teams. Karl explained that his financial situation changed when he went through a divorce, and so he could no longer afford a comic without a guaranteed paycheck. But now, through crowdfunding, Karl and Tom are able to pay their bills as they work on completing the project, eliminating the need to put their finances on hold as they had to the first time around.
7. Having worked alongside so many fellow greats in the industry, how did you decide on the lineup for the pinups and extra features in the revival of Section Zero? And for those here who haven't heard about it, could you let us know how Mike Weiringo ended up as one of the artists?
The first part of this question, Karl candidly said that he was going with artists that had a large social media following, since online marketing was the main way the Section Zero project would be funded. He then got into detail about trying to honour Mike Weiringo's memory, which was previously shared here.
8. Karl, your run writing Daredevil stands out for being a return to the original wittier, lighthearted version of the character. Does humour still have a place in comics today?
Karl comedically answered with another flat "yes". Then pausing, before elaborating that the great thing about comics is the diversity of tone, and comics should always feel fun.
At this point I started to worry that I was asking too many questions, so we might not get to the audience, so I opened up to the floor for questions. I was surprised by the first one, which was
"What is Section Zero?" (which I had thought we had covered pretty extensively in the earlier part of the panel) at which point they explained the elevator pitch, which is "X-Files if it was written by Jack Kirby". And, honestly, who wouldn't want to try a comic with that pedigree?
The next question was a funny one, from a local purveyor of comics. In an earlier answer, Karl detailed that his divorce contributed to Section Zero stopping production. The questioner pointed out that the Gorilla Press line itself (of which Section Zero was a part) crumbled not long after that, before making the comment "that must have been some divorce".
Over laughter, Karl explained, without assigning blame or much detail, that the Gorilla Press funding never came through in the way it was supposed to, and so similar problems arose for each of the other creative teams, of not being able to afford to front the production of the books on the hopes of later sales. That exhausted the audience questions, so back to mine:
9. Tom, have any of Karl's scripts contained something so tricky to draw that you wanted to say "Karl, you're an artist--you should know better!"
Tom was very complimentary in his answer, saying that Karl's art background made him a great writer, and so he never took issue with anything he had to draw. Karl echoed this, saying that for whatever reason, he and Tom had always clicked creatively in a very natural way, and that Tom's design sense made often surpassed what Karl envisioned for the page. They talked about specific characters from Section Zero, one of whom Karl credited Tom for having wholly created, who quickly became one of Karl's favorites in the series.
10. Given the cyclical nature of comics, is it ever frustrating when changes in continuity "erase" a storyline or fact you worked on? Specifically I was thinking of the lineage of the Conner Kent Superboy, who was originally a clone of both Superman and Westfield, but was later retconned to be the clone of Superman and Luthor.
Karl was very diplomatic and generous in his answer, stating that Geoff Johns' idea of having Lex Luthor be revealed as Kon-El's donor/father was a stroke of genius, and added a lot to the mythology. I agreed, but also pointed out how hotly this topic was debated on this very blog, which surprised the panel. Karl said that for the most part, he didn't create these characters, either, and so he understood that each writer or artist that follows will make changes to suit the times, and that those changes can be what makes comics exciting. He hinted at elements behind the scenes, leading me to believe that even Westfield wasn't Karl's first choice for Superboy's lineage, but that at the time DC editorial was very protective of Superman as a character, and so Superboy couldn't be a straight up clone, according to their edict.
Tom mentioned elements like the Matrix Supergirl, and echoed Karl's answer, saying that changes to continuity doesn't magically erase the comics in your long boxes, they're still there, with characters waiting to be discovered, or perhaps even used by coming generations of readers or creators.
At this point Tom related a story Karl had told him, of Karl meeting a cosplayer at a convention who was dressed as the Kon-El Superboy. The cosplayer explained that they had found an old Superboy comic in a dollar bin, never having heard of this version of the character, and fell in love with the story, enough to both dress up as this character, and seek Karl out to thank him for his work.
(Then I pointed out that my own four year old son had picked Kon-El Superboy as his Halloween costume this year!)
Karl also touched on current comics, saying that he understood the appeal of the new Superboy being the son of Superman, and was at peace and enjoying that storyline, knowing that Kon-El would probably come back someday.
11. Any other projects you'd like to bring back, maybe via crowdfunding? I was pretty keen on The Power Company, myself.
Tom and Karl were very clear that for them, the perfect vehicle was, for the present, only Section Zero, and that they had enough stories cooked up to continue with further installments for years to come.
I ended the panel by thanking Tom and Karl for a lifetime of great comics, and for personally inspiring so much of my interest in the artform and the characters, which they laughed at, taking mock umbrage at the "lifetime" part, protesting that they are very much alive, and that there are many more years of comics to come.
After the panel, both creators were very kind and seemed to have enjoyed taking part. I was busy at my own table for the rest of the show, so I didn't have much of a chance to hang with the guys and bother them with my weird, way too specific questions about Superman. But I want to thank Saskatoon Expo for allowing me to moderate, and of course, Tom and Karl for being such great subjects and creators. It was a real thrill.
Find out more about Kesel and Grummett's new comic, Section Zero, here: https://www.panicbuttonpress.com/section-zero