Still curious, still learning: A Q&A with Claire Ross Dunn
This is the first in a two-part series on the joys and challenges of being a creative person at midlife.
This time around, I’ll be sharing the highlights of a recent conversation with writer, story editor, and producer Claire Ross Dunn.
Then, a week from now, I’ll be sharing a related conversation with her husband and creative partner Kirk Dunn, an actor and multidisciplinary artist.
There’s a reason I’m sharing their two stories back-to-back. It’s almost impossible to tell Claire’s story without telling Kirk’s story — and vice versa. Their lives and creative achievements are that intertwined.
The two of them met in theatre school at York University in Toronto, back when Claire was 17 and Kirk was 19. They’ve been together ever since: married for 32 years, a couple for 33.
Q: What are the things you love most about being a creative person at midlife? What are your proudest midlife creative achievements or career milestones?
CLAIRE ROSS DUNN: I love that I am still learning….In writing, there are infinite stories to tell, and infinite ways in which to tell those stories; and there are infinite variations to those infinite ways, depending what medium you choose: books, TV and film, podcasting, theatre…
It’s amazing to me to be 58 and still learning new things about my craft, to still feel curious about its ways and my way in it.
In terms of my proudest achievements or career milestones:
Kirk and I co-wrote and co-produced a one-man show for him to perform called The Knitting Pilgrim. It detailed his 15-year journey hand-knitting an installation of three huge tapestries called Stitched Glass, and the effect that journey had on his faith, his craft, and our home life. We weren’t sure we could pull it off when we started The Knitting Pilgrim in 2018, but here we are, 85 shows later, still going strong. It’s toured Canada, gone to Austria and Germany, and we recently presented it in the United States.
Another milestone: I published my first novel At Last Count with the wonderful Invisible Publishing at 56. When Kirk and I counted how long it took to get it published, it, too, took 15 years…
Q: In what ways are you continuing to learn and grow as an artist? What are some skills you’ve acquired recently (in the past few years) or that you’re currently trying to master that weren’t part of your toolkit five or ten years ago?
CLAIRE ROSS DUNN: Every way is the short answer, and every way is the way I love it.
For example, Kirk and I had never made a podcast, but when everything was shut down during [the early part of] COVID, we decided to try our hands at it. The result was The Knitting Pilgrim Talks — a backgrounder series to our play The Knitting Pilgrim. It was a steep learning curve! We had to learn some tech — well, Kirk learned most of the tech — but I had to figure out how to structure a podcast, what made a good one, and what the workflow was.
The biggest takeaway from that experience, I think, was that the barriers to entry on such projects are becoming fewer and fewer — and for that, I’m grateful and hopeful. It means that we can make almost any creative thing we want without it having to cost a fortune, depend on a lot of people, or wait for approval from gatekeepers. That’s thrilling.
I’m also, at this point, exploring indie publishing (as opposed to traditional publishing) — and again, the same thing is true: I need to learn some new tech skills (or find someone to help me with them), all the parts of that business model, and explore my slate of ideas for what would be good to realize. The barriers to getting stories inside me out into the world, and find readers, are far fewer than they used to be. I don’t have to wait, or be approved of, or stand at the gate waiting for it open anymore. I can open it myself. And for me, at midlife, those are excellent, hopeful things.
In terms of skills and tools I’m trying to master now — oh, so many: How to use Scrivener (a novelist’s writing software), Kindle Vella (a way to share stories with readers over an extended period, in ‘episodes’ much as I do on TV), Canva (to help with image generation)…
Q: How do you hope to continue to learn and grow as an artist in the years to come?
CLAIRE ROSS DUNN: I am doing more consulting now in the TV space, helping newer creators to uncover, and structure, their raw ideas into a TV show. It’s a different skill than writing a show yourself, or even story editing a greenlit show as the episodes get written. I’m leaning on the skills I’ve accumulated over 27 years of being a TV writer, but also have to remind myself to trust the creative process in the moment. The ideas will come.
I’m also excited about the potential of indie publishing —essentially, being the writer and publisher all in one. I’d like to publish several series of adult and children’s books. I’m interested in the similarity between publishing a serialized story (much as Dickens or Hardy used to do) and how I work in TV (crafting a show, a season arc, and multiple episodes of a story, and then doling them out over a period of time and hooking in an audience).
Kirk and I originally co-produced The Knitting Pilgrim with Ergo Arts Theatre and are now producing it on our own. It tours with two people. Our next play, Spycraft, will have to travel with six people…so here we go, growing again. Can we pull it off? At this point, I know we can. Getting there is about our capacity to learn new skills and be willing to be first timers, even at this age.
Q: How important is it to have a supportive partner (and a supportive partner who is also a creative person, no less)?
CLAIRE ROSS DUNN: Vital. I can’t imagine doing this alone. Being creative is an act of bravery. Sometimes family and friends don’t understand why we’d ever choose a career with no safety net and keep doing it into our midlife and onward to retirement (if we ever really retire, that is)….
Kirk is always there by my side. That’s not to say we always work together — but even when we work separately (especially then), he gives me courage to try something new when I’m too afraid to take the leap, and I do the same for him.
We bounce around new wild ideas when chopping onions for dinner or grocery shopping or folding laundry. We read each other’s material and look for missing commas before delivering. I can’t believe I get to be both married to him, and play in the creative sandbox with him. How lucky am I?
Q. What role does community play in sustaining your creative practice at this point in your career/life?
CLAIRE ROSS DUNN: A huge part. One way I find community, for example, is by writing every morning, Monday to Friday, with other writers in silence over Zoom with a writers’ group called PJ Writing. It was founded by writer/editor/book coach Sue Reynolds during [the first part of] COVID, so writers could stay in touch during the lockdown, and she’s kept it up. I’m so thankful because those writers, many of whom are my age and older, are supportive and creative. We all try to support each other’s work by buying books or attending book launches, but even more importantly, the community we create for an hour each day, just writing side by side over Zoom, has become a grounding force in my creative life. Kirk now writes with PJ Writing, too.
Q. Is there anything you’d like to say to midlife or older artists? Perhaps some words of wisdom to encourage them?
CLAIRE ROSS DUNN: Find your posse: the people who encourage and support you to explore big wild ideas (or tiny, quiet ones). And don’t wait. To me, other than love and family, creativity in all its forms is what gives our lives meaning. I feel this now, in my late 50s, more than ever.
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