Finding creative courage: A Q&A with Kirk Dunn
This is the second in a two-part series on the joys and challenges of being a creative person at midlife.
In Part I, I shared the highlights of a recent conversation with writer, story editor, and producer Claire Ross Dunn.
This time around, in Part II, I’ll be in conversation with Kirk Dunn, an actor and multidisciplinary artist who also happens to be Claire’s husband and creative partner.
Q. What are the things you love most about being a creative person at midlife? What are your proudest midlife creative achievements or career milestones?
KIRK DUNN: I have always been a creative person. As I look back at my life and how I exist in the world, I am happiest when I am creating something. Whether it be theatre, music, writing, art, knitting, or even just engaging in some kind of handy-man job, that act of transforming one thing into another, or making something where there wasn’t something before has always filled me up.
Now, in my midlife, I am able to do it more often. There are a number of reasons contributing to that, I think.
First, our kids are in their twenties, out of the house, and (for the moment) no longer place a significant or immediate demand on our time. (To be clear: they will always need us, and in some ways, they need us more now and for bigger issues than ever before, but they are not physically present and don’t require the hands-on, physical, time-consuming support that was required when they lived with us).
Second, I have a great deal more experience in the world than I did when I was younger. This actually cuts both ways: I have more skill, understanding, and wisdom, but I also have more fear and awareness of potential pitfalls.
Third, my day job (I am a consultant in the customer service industry) is part-time, and I am in many ways able to choose my own schedule. Again, there’s good and bad here: I have time to pursue my artistic interests, but those interests need to result in some money, or I won’t be able to pay the bills.
All of which is to say, the thing I love most about being a creative person at midlife is the doing of it. The act of creation, and the feedback that is the result of that creation. I think that art is the reason we do everything. We work our jobs, complete our tasks, fulfill our obligations, so that we can put the fruits of our labour toward enjoying art of one kind of another.
If we aren’t making art directly, we are taking the funds or the currency we are gaining through our actions and we are using it to purchase art, whether it be buying material goods or an experience.
Art is the best support system for life that we have. And the fact that I can create art myself, now, at the age of 60, is a huge boon to my life.
My biggest creative milestone was the completion of a 15-year project that I originally told the arts council would take me 10 months. I hand-knitted three huge tapestries (9 feet tall by 5.5 feet wide) exploring the commonalities and the conflicts between the three Abrahamic faiths: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.
Because the project took me so long, and because I had no formal training as a visual artist, was not represented by a gallery, and had no exhibitions under my belt, I had no credibility as a visual artist, and no galleries or museums were interested in exhibiting them. I was told the work had no value.
My wife Claire and I went to the problem for the solution and created a one-person show for me to perform about my experience conceiving, struggling through, and completing the project. As an actor and artist, I have always prided myself on being positive, diligent, collaborative, professional, and easy to work with. But I look back on the creative process for The Knitting Pilgrim and realize that I was fearful, untrusting, and uncooperative. Essentially, I was terrified that no one would care about the show.
Having lived through 15 years of knitting this gigantic project, I could see nothing exceptional or interesting about it. I thought of it as a millstone about my neck, and my on-again-off-again process as a series of consecutive failures. I was certain the show would bomb, and I would look like a fool.
So I was surprised when audiences loved it. People have told me, in tears, that I’ve moved them profoundly and that I was a true artist. The Knitting Pilgrim premiered in May of 2019, took a COVID-enforced break from March 2020 to February of 2023, and has since performed nationally and internationally over 85 times. Madness.
Q. In what ways are you continuing to learn and grow as an artist? What are some skills you’ve acquired recently (in the past few years) or that you’re currently trying to master that weren’t part of your toolkit five or ten years ago?
KIRK DUNN: One of the big life lessons I remember metabolizing in my 30s came from Julia Cameron’s book, The Artist’s Way: how can we get there when the “there” keeps moving? There is always another level, always more to learn. And just because I know something, doesn’t mean I will remember it, or that I won’t slip and make that same mistake again, even though I know better.
As a textile artist, specifically a knitter, there are a great many techniques that I know very little about. In the present day, we are blessed with YouTube and the internet, which (for all its pitfalls) is an incredible wealth of how-to information for knitting and design. I am trying to be intentional about expanding my repertoire of stitches and techniques, even though I have enough ideas with the type of knitting I do right now—essentially painting with yarn—to last me a lifetime. Sort of like my yarn stash. (Knitters have an inside joke about their “stash,” or collection of yarn that they have built up over the years. We describe said collection with a number of years followed by SBD – which stands for “Stash Beyond Death.”)
Nonetheless, I learned to crochet a couple of years ago, and have created a number of Rainbow “Tree Sweaters” or “Yarn Bombs” that wrap around the trunks of large trees to celebrate Pride. Those installations have received a lot of attention. Claire and I are talking about me working on small, stitched puppets for a future theatrical venture. Those will need to be crocheted, so I will have to learn a great deal more about that craft.
One of the things I continue to struggle with as an artist is marketing. These days, this involves social media, which is its own special hell – constantly changing, and a tricky time sucker. But when I think back, I have always struggled to market myself. The sad irony of focusing on art is that to make it your job and be paid for it, you’ve got to get it out there. And that involves self-promotion, which has always made me feel awkward and taken time away from doing the art in the first place. This is one of the things that Claire helps me with a tremendous amount. Not only did she do some part-time work as an arts marketer in the past, but she does not feel awkward about promoting my work. I have learned (and continue to learn) a great deal from her.
Q. How do you hope to continue to learn and grow as an artist in the years to come?
KIRK DUNN: I need to deal with my fear and resistance. Fear is without a doubt the biggest obstacle in my life. I am constantly worried about what other people will think, and I am afraid I will fail. That fear is often paralyzing. I become so concerned about possible disastrous outcomes that I avoid making a decision. I spend time thinking catastrophic thoughts, which prevents me to do anything else effectively.
On my desk I have a list of reminders to encourage me to move forward. Things like:
You don’t need to get it right, just get it going.
Perfect is the enemy of good.
Do it now.
Nobody knows anything.
Fear is the key.
Do it scared.
Fear can come along for the ride, but it doesn’t get to drive.
If not now, when?
If I am not for myself, then who is for me?
Write like you’re not afraid.
It takes as long as it takes.
Yes, you can.
Nobody likes to start.
There is nothing wrong with this moment.
Where fear is a vicious circle – the more afraid I am, the more afraid I become – I find that creating art is a virtuous one. Once I get a project out there (either finished or in process) and get positive feedback on it, I find that I am empowered and encouraged to continue. Alas, this inertia has a short half-life, and I am working at prolonging it, remembering it and honouring it.
Q. How important is it to have a supportive partner (and a supportive partner who is also a creative person, no less)?
KIRK DUNN: I cannot overstate the importance of Claire in my life. I don’t know if I would have accomplished anything at all without her. I have many interests and find it easy to come up with big ideas, plans, and projects, but I find it very difficult to finish them. My fear and resistance inevitably appear, and things stall and fall by the wayside.
Claire has been tireless in her support. She has done everything from inspire and encourage me to flat-out holding my feet to the fire. She has shown me, through her own path as an artist, how to be resilient and resourceful. I have seen her put art into the world, be crushed by negative feedback, then pick herself up, assess the situation, get the help she needs, find a new angle, and go again. And again. And again. Until the project succeeds.
Claire is energized by the artistic process. It’s all she wants to engage in. While I, too, need to create and make art, I am much more fearful, and therefore more private and guarded about my thoughts. Claire constantly inspires me to be braver, try harder, to open myself up and share – to give art the oxygen it needs to become the warmth and light giving fire it wants and deserves to be, as opposed to the tiny ember I try to hold for myself.
Q. What role does community play in sustaining your creative practice at this point in your career/life?
KIRK DUNN: Community is the sounding board, the feedback loop that gives me the confidence and the inspiration to keep producing art. As my own worst critic, I am always surprised at the reaction of others to my work. Not only can community give me the positive feedback I need to get going, but it actively participates in helping me get my work out there. We could not have toured The Knitting Pilgrim for 85 shows without a great deal of help. I find the community of textile artists and knitters to be incredibly supportive, and they are generous and energetic about helping me execute my projects and share my experiences.
Q. Is there anything you’d like to say to midlife or older artists? Perhaps some words of wisdom to encourage them?
KIRK DUNN: I suppose this is where that list of sayings above belongs.
I am also reminded of something Antanas Sileika said to Claire at (someone else’s) book launch. Antanas had edited Claire’s work in Humber College’s writing programme years before, and in the midst of this very loud and noisy function, Claire was bringing him up to speed on her saga of submitting her novel to publishers and being turned down, and of basically letting the book die. Antanas leaned in close to Claire and yelled over the hubbub: “Keep going. Keep going. Keep going.”
That pretty much says it, I think.
