A Mini Interview: Jocelyn Hernandez Guitron
soy la misma newsletter
Soy La Misma is back with the second installation of "mini-interviews," where I'm interviewing great friends of mine who are in their twenties! In today's newsletter, you'll meet Jocelyn, whom I met right after undergrad in southwest Minnesota. This interview left me with new ideas to reflect on and inspired me to continue to be authentically me. I hope you enjoy it! And just a reminder: we are on Native land, even though it often feels like 'America' is the land of the white folk in Minnesota.
Andrea: Hi Jocelyn! So good to hear your voice! First, I want to start with the early beginnings: where did you go to college, and what was your study?
Jocelyn: Yes! So, I started in college when I was in high school. I did PSEO (post-secondary education opportunity) during my junior and senior years of high school. I went to North Hennepin Community College in Brooklyn Park for my Associate for two and a half years. I graduated from high school and then, a semester later, from North Hennepin. From there, I went to Augsburg for my bachelor's in Sociology. Two years after I graduated, I went to the University of Minnesota for my master's in civic engagement.
Andrea: What did you do between those two years of your bachelor's and master's?
Jocelyn: I moved to Marshall, Minnesota, to work for the University of Minnesota Extension. That was in 2019. I worked for a while. The university has a really good tuition package; they pay 75 percent of your tuition. Everyone else in that field in my workplace had a master's, and I was the only that didn't, so I figured I should go get my master's.
Andrea: How did you find out about the job in Marshall?
Jocelyn: So I found it on Facebook through a connection. I was hoping to get a job at SMSU in Marshall. Someone on Facebook shared a post from someone else about the job opening with the UM Extension, so from that post, I applied. And I applied months before I heard from them and got the job acceptance.
Andrea: Let's back up a bit. I'm always curious to know about housing arrangements. When you transferred to Augsburg, did you live at home with your parents?
Jocelyn: Yes, I lived with my parents throughout my entire time in college and PSEO. I was a commuter student for my entire schooling from PSEO to North Hennepin and Augsburg.
Andrea: So when you transitioned to Marshall, what was that experience like?
Jocelyn: It was really hard. Suddenly leaving your parents and leaving the support of home because I think sometimes we think our parents nag us too much, but then I remember that I ate after school because my parent's made me food. So moving to Marshall, three hours away from home, and being recently married was difficult. Everything changed at the same time, it was tough to be away from my direct connection to my culture, language, and food, so I started developing stomach sensitivity to food and gaining weight. It was definitely challenging and a huge shift.
Andrea: What was the biggest thing you learned in that transition, especially going from an urban area to a small town in Greater Minnesota?
Jocelyn: Brown people are everywhere. No matter how far or rural you're going, there will always be a brown person. Our people are going to be there, at some point, somehow. And the importance of connection to community and culture. It's so wild how fast you can lose those things you grew up with.
Andrea: How long were you in Marshall?
Jocelyn: Maybe around two years.
Andrea: What was that transition again -- to return home from a small town?
Jocelyn: At that time, it felt good overall. I was excited to move back because Marshall was becoming a difficult place to live in, like the pandemic was happening, and there was less interaction with people. I was glad to move back home, but now I was wondering how to balance my life and family now that I'm closer to them. I was at my parent's house almost every week, most days. I stopped having a personal life, and it became me and my family. It's not bad, but there is some benefit to considering what I look like outside of my family. Another challenging thing that I had to figure out was working in the local government with people's perspectives about rural became annoying because I felt like I had to defend this very short period of my life. And that there are benefits outside Minneapolis and St. Paul.
Andrea: What's the hottest take you've heard about Greater MN in the workplace, and perhaps what was your rebuttal?
Jocelyn: I think, just in general, this thought as the Twin Cities are the center of the universe and assuming that everyone in greater Minnesota is a hardcore Republican. When I worked at Extension, everyone talked about the urban-rural divide, and I would always say there isn't an urban-rural divide in terms of people. It's in terms of funding and in terms of politics, but the people are the same. The urban-rural divide isn't geographic. It's more like a mindset because there are people in the cities that think 'rural'.
Andrea: That's a great perspective. I think a lot of people would be shocked to hear that realization. Living urban doesn't indicate that all policies/people are progressive, and vice versa in rural. Let's talk about your career! Anytime after you graduated undergrad, as an immigrant yourself, have you ever thought, "I wish I would've done this or that.." while in undergrad or immediately after?
Jocelyn: Yeah, for me -- growing up undocumented, having DACA- is that you're always just trying to get through it and getting to the next thing. At first, it's graduating high school and then graduating college with the least amount of debt and getting a good job. When I graduated college, I was like, "Oh shit. What do I do now? Who am I? What is my purpose?" So, if I could've done something differently, it would've been to take advantage to take all opportunities to connect with people, with teachers, to do extra research opportunities, and to travel within the country (and abroad). I benefitted from these activities in college. I wish I had treated school as an experience, not as another thing I needed to check off my list. I had internships throughout college, so my internships/jobs were my focus, and school was my side thing. I wish I had enjoyed being a student more, finding more immigrants to connect with at school, connecting with more people of color, and building friendships. Schools are for creating networks, building your career, and building the foundation of your young adult life.
Andrea: Yes! I wish I had known that college does not need to be so linear. Because I was in the political science track, I decided to only intern at non-profits or government spaces. If I could go back, I would've done something totally different from my study, like trying out a tech company to bring into light all the different spaces I could infiltrate my political science degree. Is there anything there that you would've done differently within your major/study? Or are you completely content with where it's taken you?
Jocelyn: I think for me, I was doing that. I had internships throughout my college experience. I see that other of my colleagues stick to one thing. That's why college should be where you're trying out different opportunities, whether it's within the arts, with youth, or anything else. For example, my sister doubts herself whenever she's on the fence about an opportunity, so I must tell her, "Let them say no to you. You shouldn't tell yourself no at an opportunity."
Andrea: How does your undergrad and grad school experience compare?
Jocelyn: Grad school is way better. It's way more concentrated. At least for me, my master's is super relevant to what I've already done. So it felt like a natural next step, so that was helpful. But comparatively, in undergrad, you're so much more involved with your school and peers, and you get more freedom to explore different things. A lot of people that are in their master's program are in their career or really focused on getting into that specific career. So you're not necessarily going to have many opportunities to have fun things to do with folks or go out. The social life is less busy than it is in undergrad.
Andrea: As a daughter of immigrants, what's been the toughest lesson you've learned now that you're done with schooling?
Jocelyn: I have to remind myself that I'm an immigrant too. I immigrated here as well. But the toughest lesson that I continue to learn is that I do not belong. In any of my job places, in school -- I don't belong. To me, what's so challenging about that is that we want to belong here. But we don't, and we are different. I was not born here, I was born in another country. I grew up with the fear of being an undocumented immigrant. I grew up having to navigate spaces that did not even think about people with DACA, did not think about immigrants, did not think about people like my parents and me. I now realize that that is my strength. My biggest tool is that I don't belong. It's good for me to feel like I don't belong because it means that I'm doing my work right. I'm carrying my people with me. I'm continuing to stay true to myself, my identity, and where I come from. Because if I felt like I completely belonged, then what did I lose? What did I have to give up?
Andrea: Wow! That's an interesting take I've never heard before. It's powerful. As you know, when we met when I worked for an organization with a big theme of belonging. How does that work into play when white folk shout to immigrants/people of color, "You belong here!"
Jocelyn: I think if you look at ourselves in our complete truth, we know that there are things that set us apart culturally. There are things that set us apart values-wise. Even in our deepest hearts, we know that people who say, "You belong here," mean it to a certain extent. 'You belong here if you don't talk too much. You belong here if you aren't too honest with how you feel.' For me, that's a challenge. Something I'm continuing to learn is that there's a balance. I know that I act differently when I'm at work than when I'm with family. I'm more honest with my family than I am at work. I know that being brown is still a minority experience in local government. We belong because we have a right to be here, but do we fit in? No. I'm glad that I don't fit in. I know that there are Latinos that do fit in, but I know that I don't want to be like them.
Andrea: Are we referencing the assimilators here? Well, the problematic ones... I learned the hard way, and when I did, a quote that stuck out to me was Zora Neale Hurstons', "Not all skinfolk, are kinfolk." Have you heard of that?
Jocelyn: Yes! That's what I mean.
Andrea: Something that's still on my mind as we discuss is how education has been a huge part of my identity. I'm working on releasing the aspect of making education my identity. I'd like to know what motivates you in life now that you're done with schooling.
Jocelyn: I think you're totally right -- technically, I have one more thing to do to finish my master's though I've graduated. It's been the most challenging time of my entire life not being in school. Because it's like, "What do I do now?" I don't have hobbies, I don't have interests, or things that I like to do after work because school has been my entire life. I'm grateful because it got me to this point, but now it's like I can breathe and take time to think about myself. In terms of motivation, it's gratitude and my family. Being grateful that I'm alive, that my family is healthy and with me. The power of being present is being able to see where you are. As an immigrant and child of immigrants, you're always thinking about proving yourself one way or another. And being able to sit there and take a look how amazing it is that I'm here -- I'm someone who was undocumented and had DACA, and I'm working in government. I'm one of three Mexicans working here currently. At some point, this place was segregated and didn't allow brown people. I have a job with benefits. I graduated from college, I have my master's - it's amazing. It's important to realize that we do have accomplishments that deserve recognition from ourselves and from others. Things you didn't imagine you could do or get through, and you did it. So when I'm down, I'm like, "Okay bitch. You have a master's. I did that. I'm here."
Andrea: I love that!! You pretty much wrapped up my last question, but I'll ask it anyway. Any advice you have for immigrants or children of immigrants in their twenties (whether they went to school or didn't)?
Jocelyn: Do not always think about the future. Appreciate who you are at this moment. And the biggest thing is, always let 'them' tell you no, do not tell yourself no because you think you don't meet the requirements or you're not good enough. You must try, ask the questions, and look for answers; if someone says no, then look in another direction so that you can move forward in your career.